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Heavenly Vs Satan 
2009-02-18 - extension: zip - size: 50 MB
Heavenly Vs Satan
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Debate: Sam Shamoun -VS- SwordOfAllah/Rex *Good Quality* 1/6 Review and Commentary of the Trinity debate between Sam Shamoun and (More) Review and Commentary of the Trinity debate between Sam Shamoun and SwordofAllah(Khalid)/Islam-and-friends.
By Keith Thompson
Sam won this debate easily even though it was two against one.10-7 for Sam Shamoun.
On Rex's Opening Statement:
Rex claims that the Trinity is a "ficticious" concept that was introduced to certian sects at the council of Nicea. The council of Nicea however consisted of Bishops of thier own congregations assembling to combat Arius's heretical teachings about Christ being the first creation. Trinity was not developed there. Sam refutes this claim and notes that the Trinity is Biblical and that early church fathers used Trinitarian language prior to the council of Nicea thus destroying Rex's fabrication. Polycarp (70-155). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
"O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).
And Tertullian (160-215). An African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation...[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Rex then asserted that the Trinity is Illogical and accused Christians (maybe Sam) of taking verses out of context to prove the doctrine, or using verses that were later additions but provided no examples. He quoted John 14:28 out of context which Sam would put in context and refute in his first rebuttal.
On SwordOfAllah's Opening statement:
SwordOfAllah's first argument was taken from Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik which is. "Since Jesus never said "I am God" in those exact three words, therefore he is not God. However the first 13 chapters of Genesis do not contain anything like that either but no one doubts it is God speaking when. Secondly, There is numerous evidences of Jesus' divinity which Sam noted from the old and new testament. There are many claims of Jesus' divinity from Jesus and the apostles. Here are a few example:
John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins."
John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
SwordOfAllah then asserted that what Sam quoted were skewed interpretations but did not attempt to refute any passage Sam cited. Sword then said that God made man in his image and his comparable to that. I would agree. Man is body, spirit and mind. Three yet one. Just like God. Sword then brought up a few passages. He quotes Numbers 23:19 but mistakes it for Numbers 23:21. It states:
"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
As Sam Shamoun writes: "None of those biblical texts say God CANNOT be a man, but say that God IS not a man, a major difference: It is true that during the Old Testament period God hadn'tt become a man, but this doesn'tt deny that God could choose to later become a man, specifically in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Hebrew Bible itself supports the view that God can become a man, without ceasing to be God, since there are places where God appeared in human form:..Genesis 18:1-5, 8-10a, 13-17, 20-26, 33."
Then in the question and answer period, after asking Sam to provide examples of where Jesus is God, Sword interrupts Sam when answering and tries to go on to another question. Sword complains about revelation because he thought it was a dream and when Sam tried to tell him to go to Bukhari to know that muhammad recieved revelation thorugh dreams, Sword started yelling and stated: "We aren't talking about Bukhari!!!" (Less)
Debate: Sam Shamoun -VS- SwordOfAllah/Rex *Good Quality* 6/6 Review and Commentary of the Trinity debate between Sam Shamoun and (More) Review and Commentary of the Trinity debate between Sam Shamoun and SwordofAllah(Khalid)/Islam-and-friends.
By Keith Thompson
Sam won this debate easily even though it was two against one.10-7 for Sam Shamoun.
On Rex's Opening Statement:
Rex claims that the Trinity is a "ficticious" concept that was introduced to certian sects at the council of Nicea. The council of Nicea however consisted of Bishops of thier own congregations assembling to combat Arius's heretical teachings about Christ being the first creation. Trinity was not developed there. Sam refutes this claim and notes that the Trinity is Biblical and that early church fathers used Trinitarian language prior to the council of Nicea thus destroying Rex's fabrication. Polycarp (70-155). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
"O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).
And Tertullian (160-215). An African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation...[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Rex then asserted that the Trinity is Illogical and accused Christians (maybe Sam) of taking verses out of context to prove the doctrine, or using verses that were later additions but provided no examples. He quoted John 14:28 out of context which Sam would put in context and refute in his first rebuttal.
On SwordOfAllah's Opening statement:
SwordOfAllah's first argument was taken from Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik which is. "Since Jesus never said "I am God" in those exact three words, therefore he is not God. However the first 13 chapters of Genesis do not contain anything like that either but no one doubts it is God speaking when. Secondly, There is numerous evidences of Jesus' divinity which Sam noted from the old and new testament. There are many claims of Jesus' divinity from Jesus and the apostles. Here are a few example:
John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins."
John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
SwordOfAllah then asserted that what Sam quoted were skewed interpretations but did not attempt to refute any passage Sam cited. Sword then said that God made man in his image and his comparable to that. I would agree. Man is body, spirit and mind. Three yet one. Just like God. Sword then brought up a few passages. He quotes Numbers 23:19 but mistakes it for Numbers 23:21. It states:
"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
As Sam Shamoun writes: "None of those biblical texts say God CANNOT be a man, but say that God IS not a man, a major difference: It is true that during the Old Testament period God hadn'tt become a man, but this doesn'tt deny that God could choose to later become a man, specifically in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Hebrew Bible itself supports the view that God can become a man, without ceasing to be God, since there are places where God appeared in human form:..Genesis 18:1-5, 8-10a, 13-17, 20-26, 33."
Then in the question and answer period, after asking Sam to provide examples of where Jesus is God, Sword interrupts Sam when answering and tries to go on to another question. Sword complains about revelation because he thought it was a dream and when Sam tried to tell him to go to Bukhari to know that muhammad recieved revelation thorugh dreams, Sword started yelling and stated: "We aren't talking about Bukhari!!!" (Less)
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